Discussion:
Bach - What a big farce
(too old to reply)
lipanz
2007-02-23 18:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike West Monroe,

In ref to the link below which shows Bach with George Bush. I wonder
if that photo was (like altered) matched together. Also bush is so
rapped up with that Iraq thing (give all our hard earned money to Iraq
- take it from Medicare - let our people suffer) why would he
even give the time of day or waste his time with Bach & Lyme D. A
fake----And Bach with that medal around his neck. What a farce.
Really seems like a fake photo to me. Looks kind of weird. Like I
say beware of those who blow their own horn.
I can't understand why the infectious D. drs. don't get after him. I
guess he is the untouchable former wrestler.

I can't understand how this Bach gets away with all that & a good
regular type lyme doctor has to watch his P's & Q's like crazy afraid
they can take his license away. And also a few yrs. ago Sen.
Santorium from Pgh was working with him in ref to Lyme. How did he
get farced by him.....the whole thing is sickening.

See this link for a picture of him with the
biggest fraud of them all - George W. Bush. RIGHT
http://www.drgregorybach.com/ Maybe Bush will be there when Bach
opens
his one-man clinic to solve all the health problems of the world!
RIGHT-----
Our Reality: Our patient, after spending 20,000 on Bach, is now
totally
unable to move or speak. He may die tonight or he may go on for years
and years. Death is not the worst part of this disease. Living with
total paralysis is. I know he wishes he could have died a couple
years
ago but Bach convinced him that there was hope and he lost the chance
to
end his own life as he might have wanted to, and now we all are just
caring for him at home and waiting for, and dreading, the inevitable,
whenever it comes.
One more "gift" of Dr. Bach - Quite a few close relatives of our
patient
bought into the Bach diagnosis 100% and decided that there was
nothing
serious to worry about and cut off our patient entirely! "He's got
the
lyme real bad," one of them told me, "but he'll be okay." When I said
that you have to see him while he can still talk, they told me I was
negative and thinking that I knew more than Dr. Bach. A lot of anger
and
a lot of blame.
Now, they are still unable to accept that it's ALS and simply avoid
seeing him, for a year and more. They sit alone and he sits alone and
the sadness grows deeper and deeper. Some relatives don't speak to
their
parents over this. And some parents cut off their own children. Of
course, families have their problems but the tendency of so many to
accept the Bach nonsense did a lot of damage in this family. I like
to
think that, if at the start, after getting an ALS diagnosis from
three
top neurologists, we had simply been able to face the horrible facts
of
ALS without the two years of delusion provided by Bach, we would have
all been better off now.
The majority of people, even relative strangers, however, have been
wonderful and kind human beings and done so much for our patient. Not
that real life is like "Tuesdays With Morrie." But good people do
come
to visit and help all the time. Of course, not a word from Bach. He
has
his money and he is happy to go on the next victim.
Like most con men, he's clever and chooses people who will not hit
back.
He makes them feel stupid and abused, and that is the way he prevents
them from going public or suing him. Soon enough, they lose all
capacity
to act or speak, and eventually die, while he goes on bragging about
his
marvelous cure of Tom Coffey and raises more money for his new clinic
with its magical treatments.
Sorry if I sound negative here, but sometimes facing reality is a lot
better than fooling yourself that there's a cure for something that
has
no cure.


Mike West Monroe
pmerv
2007-02-24 09:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by lipanz
Sorry if I sound negative here, but sometimes facing reality is a lot
better than fooling yourself that there's a cure for something that
has
no cure.
Mike West Monroe
Reality is that there is a small chance, maybe 20% of cure. What would
you have said if your patient had been one of the lucky ones? I know
you're in a difficult situation, but blaming the doctor for not being
omniscient doesn't strike me as being either fair or logical.
Sewer Rat
2007-02-24 14:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by pmerv
Reality is that there is a small chance, maybe 20% of cure.
Can you show evidence for that? What do you consider a cure?
Do you differentiate between the duration of the disease?
Post by pmerv
What would
you have said if your patient had been one of the lucky ones? I know
you're in a difficult situation, but blaming the doctor for not being
omniscient doesn't strike me as being either fair or logical.
pmerv, what do you think of Bach? (the reports about him, the things he
is doing, the "studies" he has done, etc.)
pmerv
2007-02-24 20:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Several ILADS drs who certainly try as hard as anyone to help people
with ALS, said that their success rate was about 20%.

As for Bach, I met one of his successes and I know of at least one
failure. I think people are a lot harder on Lyme drs than they are on
others, say oncologists. How many people do you know who have died of
cancer? or of chemotherapy, for that matter? Face it, some people are
going to die of Lyme disease, no matter what you do. Let's cut these
drs a little slack. At least they are trying.

If people don't like ILADS drs they are free to stick to the IDSA who
will tell them they probably never had Lyme in the first place, but
even if they did, they don't now, after the magic "cure" that never
has been proven to cure.
Post by Sewer Rat
Post by pmerv
Reality is that there is a small chance, maybe 20% of cure.
Can you show evidence for that? What do you consider a cure?
Do you differentiate between the duration of the disease?
Post by pmerv
What would
you have said if your patient had been one of the lucky ones? I know
you're in a difficult situation, but blaming the doctor for not being
omniscient doesn't strike me as being either fair or logical.
pmerv, what do you think of Bach? (the reports about him, the things he
is doing, the "studies" he has done, etc.)
Sewer Rat
2007-02-24 20:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by pmerv
Several ILADS drs who certainly try as hard as anyone to help people
with ALS, said that their success rate was about 20%.
A success rate of about 20% for treating ALS?
Post by pmerv
As for Bach, I met one of his successes and I know of at least one
failure.
You are avoiding my question. I guess you are familiar with all those
remarkable reports about Bach. Don't you think it's concerning?
Post by pmerv
I think people are a lot harder on Lyme drs than they are on
others, say oncologists. How many people do you know who have died of
cancer? or of chemotherapy, for that matter? Face it, some people are
going to die of Lyme disease, no matter what you do. Let's cut these
drs a little slack. At least they are trying.
This is a bad comparison, and I don't get the point either.
Post by pmerv
If people don't like ILADS drs they are free to stick to the IDSA who
will tell them they probably never had Lyme in the first place, but
even if they did, they don't now, after the magic "cure" that never
has been proven to cure.
This tread is not about ILADS-doctors in general, but about one in
particular. There could be both good and bad ILADS doctors.

Let me ask again: pmerv, what do you think of Bach?
pmerv
2007-02-25 06:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sewer Rat
Post by pmerv
Several ILADS drs who certainly try as hard as anyone to help people
with ALS, said that their success rate was about 20%.
A success rate of about 20% for treating ALS?
Post by pmerv
As for Bach, I met one of his successes and I know of at least one
failure.
You are avoiding my question. I guess you are familiar with all those
remarkable reports about Bach. Don't you think it's concerning?
Post by pmerv
I think people are a lot harder on Lyme drs than they are on
others, say oncologists. How many people do you know who have died of
cancer? or of chemotherapy, for that matter? Face it, some people are
going to die of Lyme disease, no matter what you do. Let's cut these
drs a little slack. At least they are trying.
This is a bad comparison, and I don't get the point either.
Post by pmerv
If people don't like ILADS drs they are free to stick to the IDSA who
will tell them they probably never had Lyme in the first place, but
even if they did, they don't now, after the magic "cure" that never
has been proven to cure.
This tread is not about ILADS-doctors in general, but about one in
particular. There could be both good and bad ILADS doctors.
Let me ask again: pmerv, what do you think of Bach?
I don't have an opinion. I am not his patient.
Sewer Rat
2007-02-25 17:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by pmerv
Post by Sewer Rat
Let me ask again: pmerv, what do you think of Bach?
I don't have an opinion. I am not his patient.
This probably means: you think the reports about Bach are concerning.

Does your position as "president" of the CALDA not allow you to have a
bad opinion about ILADS and ILADS MD's?
the 3rd Man
2007-02-25 18:13:33 UTC
Permalink
I don't have an opinion. I am not his patient.-
Yes, Phyllis...but can we assume from that "non-answer" that you are
beginning to sense the difficulty inherent in defending the practices
of some doctors and why this is a BAD IDEA for so-called "patient
advocates" to be engaged in?

For instance, look at the response of Pat Smith to the Forbes
article...it is all about defending DOCTORS, isn't it?

Well, gosh, golly and gee whiz, there, Phyllis...what happens when and
if the interests of the patients and doctors CONFLICT?

Ooops.

Sort of painted yourself into a corner with that strategy if you're
defending a bunch of scammmers, huh? (I am NOT saying that is what is
happening here). BUT...I certainly hope you are not stupid enough to
allow yourself to be hoodwinked into providing a political shield for
unscrupulous PREDATORS...doctors lining their pockets at the expense
of vulnerable patients.

But the constant drumbeat of "supporting OUR doctors"...well,
hell...sort of looks ANTI-COMPETITIVE, "in a way"...to me, at least...

...(does the LDA ever come up with a response that does NOT consist of
e-mailing everyone in the western hemisphere several hundred times? Is
there any indication that this practice is effective in any way...ever
anything but extremely annoying)?
m***@aol.com
2016-05-18 06:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Great letter --3rd man...something very odd about that Dr. Bach
Post by the 3rd Man
I don't have an opinion. I am not his patient.-
Yes, Phyllis...but can we assume from that "non-answer" that you are
beginning to sense the difficulty inherent in defending the practices
of some doctors and why this is a BAD IDEA for so-called "patient
advocates" to be engaged in?
For instance, look at the response of Pat Smith to the Forbes
article...it is all about defending DOCTORS, isn't it?
Well, gosh, golly and gee whiz, there, Phyllis...what happens when and
if the interests of the patients and doctors CONFLICT?
Ooops.
Sort of painted yourself into a corner with that strategy if you're
defending a bunch of scammmers, huh? (I am NOT saying that is what is
happening here). BUT...I certainly hope you are not stupid enough to
allow yourself to be hoodwinked into providing a political shield for
unscrupulous PREDATORS...doctors lining their pockets at the expense
of vulnerable patients.
But the constant drumbeat of "supporting OUR doctors"...well,
hell...sort of looks ANTI-COMPETITIVE, "in a way"...to me, at least...
...(does the LDA ever come up with a response that does NOT consist of
e-mailing everyone in the western hemisphere several hundred times? Is
there any indication that this practice is effective in any way...ever
anything but extremely annoying)?
the 3rd Man
2007-02-28 14:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by pmerv
Several ILADS drs who certainly try as hard as anyone to help people
with ALS, said that their success rate was about 20%.
As for Bach, I met one of his successes and I know of at least one
failure. I think people are a lot harder on Lyme drs than they are on
others, say oncologists. How many people do you know who have died of
cancer? or of chemotherapy, for that matter? Face it, some people are
going to die of Lyme disease, no matter what you do. Let's cut these
drs a little slack. At least they are trying.
WHAT? WHAT did you say?

"Cut them some SLACK"?

Did you read the allegations about how Dr. Bach treats patients
diagnosed with a terminal illness and then has a LAWYER send them a
letter, in essence, FIRING them as patients and threatening them to
stay away?

(In case you missed it: "The lawyer whom Dr. Bach uses to threaten and
dump very sick ALS patients, when they are no longer of value or
interest to him, is Michael Schoppmann, who has boasted to the press
of defending "lyme MDs" when they face prosecution for various forms
of medical fraud. Dr. bach had his lawyer send this kind of letter to
the football player Steve Smith in order to dump him as a pateint. Yet
Bach still features pictures of Mr. Smith in his office as one of his
miracle cures").!


HUH?

THIS is the type of practice you defend and refer patients to? This is
representative of ILADS?
Post by pmerv
If people don't like ILADS drs they are free to stick to the IDSA who
will tell them they probably never had Lyme in the first place, but
even if they did, they don't now, after the magic "cure" that never
has been proven to cure.
Yeah, well...this isn't about THEM, is it?...it's about BACH...and his
so-called "ALS" practice.

IS THIS TRUE, PHYLLIS?

You are in a much better position to find out...why don't you TRY?

This is a signifiagnt issue, here...how about some kind of response?

COME ON...time to decide...are you going to be an advocate for
PATIENTS...and HELP them make informed decisions...or defend DOCTORS
who are friends of yours?

WHICH is it?
Sewer Rat
2007-02-28 17:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by the 3rd Man
WHAT? WHAT did you say?
"Cut them some SLACK"?
Did you read the allegations about how Dr. Bach treats patients
diagnosed with a terminal illness and then has a LAWYER send them a
letter, in essence, FIRING them as patients and threatening them to
stay away?
We could call Michael Schoppmann, and ask himself if it is true. :)
Or perhaps Phyllis can do that, being president of the CALDA.
Post by the 3rd Man
Yeah, well...this isn't about THEM, is it?...it's about BACH...and his
so-called "ALS" practice.
IS THIS TRUE, PHYLLIS?
You are in a much better position to find out...why don't you TRY?
This is a signifiagnt issue, here...how about some kind of response?
COME ON...time to decide...are you going to be an advocate for
PATIENTS...and HELP them make informed decisions...or defend DOCTORS
who are friends of yours?
WHICH is it?
If Phyllis is a true advocate for Lyme patients then she has to do
something with the allegations. Phyllis should be worried.
the 3rd Man
2007-02-28 18:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sewer Rat
We could call Michael Schoppmann, and ask himself if it is true. :)
Or perhaps Phyllis can do that, being president of the CALDA.
I think that if I were in Phyllis' position...that I would WANT to get
to the truth of these allegations, one way or another, and as soon as
possible.

I think this is serious stuff.

If this is true...this is horrible...and an ILADS member...a rather
prominent one at that...

(I have actually experienced this "being fired" myself, once. It was
early on in my Lyme "journey"...I had been having severe GI
problems...and had lost about 30 lbs in as many days. Sudden and
severe weight loss...(on Burrascano's list)...and even had tests done
which the gastroenterologist himself said were 'clinically
signifigant'. Nonetheless...when I told him that I was beginning to
tremor uncontrollably...he fired me...told me he had no idea what was
wrong with me and that there was nothing else he could do for me. It's
an "interesting" experience...to be treated like that...to go to them
for help...they take your money and then tell you to get lost.

I cannot imagine what that would feel like for an ALS patient...to
have that done to them. Absolutely horrible. Inhumane and inhuman.

And BTW...that same gastroenterologist removed a tick from me some
months earlier...no antibiotics prescribed. Yes. He took the tick
off).
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